[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Faith Break. Finding God moments in your everyday. Each week on Faith Break, hosts Karen Luke and Ann Gallagher bring spiritual refreshment to your Daily Life. It's March 16th this week. Karen and Ann ask what would it look like to let God be in charge of our prayer this Lent? And they discuss how to create favorable conditions for God's grace to move in our hearts.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Faith Break. I am Ann Gallagher.
[00:00:40] Speaker C: And I am Karen Luke.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: And we are here once again to help you find your God moments in your everyday. As we are together, friends, ministers, moms, wives, clothes, coworkers, everything. Everything. And today, we are here especially to help you on this Lenten journey that we are all on. We are in the middle of a series where we are looking at the three traditional Lenten disciplines. So last week we talked about fasting. Today we're going to talk about prayer, and next week we're going to talk about almsgiving.
So I sat down to gather my thoughts for today's. You're so good at that episode. But this one was a challenge because I feel like we've talked about, we've given a lot of prayer tips already on the podcast. Yeah. Like when last week we talked about fasting, I had, like, all these ideas we found.
[00:01:32] Speaker C: Right.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: I feel like for almsgiving, we'll have a lot of ideas to share, but this one just feels a little bit different to me in tone. So I think what I have to say today is more about, like, just some general sharing about praying in Lent and less kind of practical tips.
All right. But we should do our God moments first.
[00:01:51] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: Do you have a God moment for the week?
[00:01:53] Speaker C: Yes. Mine's, like, totally random.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Those are the best ones.
[00:01:57] Speaker C: Okay. So my brother is 10 years older than me, and I was in for, I don't know, third or fourth grade when he graduated high school. Then he moved out to Illinois. I have the backstory. I have to give you a backstory. That's right. Then he moved out to Illinois. Then he came back for two years and then moved back out to Illinois. So he is basically been living in Illinois for my whole life. Well, he didn't think I was cool until I was like 21, when I could, like, go out and hang out with him. And I mean, we don't have a very close relationship. So we have a family group text between my mom and sister and my dad and Tommy and I. But the other day, out of the randomness blue, he just text me, like, no one else in the group, just me and asked me how I was doing.
So it was just like, I know. And it was like, wow, thank you. Okay.
[00:02:50] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:02:51] Speaker C: And I didn't know how to respond like that. I was just like, fine. How are you? I don't know how I am.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Did you go deeper with it?
[00:02:57] Speaker C: Did you? Yeah, Yeah, I did. And then. But then it, like, grew. You know, we obviously texting for a little bit. He's like, so, when are you guys coming out to visit us? So it was like, more than just a hey, how are you?
[00:03:09] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:03:10] Speaker C: The weather's nice type of thing.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: It was like, cousins are the best, aren't they, brother? Brother? Oh, your brother. I thought you said cousin brother. Oh, yeah. Okay.
[00:03:17] Speaker C: But I didn't think I was cool until I could go out with my cousins and him.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: Got it.
[00:03:21] Speaker C: That's where that was. Yeah.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: Cause you're so much younger.
[00:03:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Brian is the same way. His siblings are all at least 10 years older than me. Yeah. It's just a weird. He has some, like, only child traits.
[00:03:31] Speaker C: Me, too. Yep. So it is like, a weird, you know, timeframe. But it was nice just to hear from him, so I'm sure my mom will love that. This was my God moment.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: That's great.
[00:03:43] Speaker C: What about you?
[00:03:44] Speaker B: Actually, mine is a little bit similar to that. I had an email earlier this week from our colleague Rich down in Ithaca, and he was like, hey, do you have some time for a conversation this week? I just have a few questions about. He's starting up a new, like, senior high youth group down there. And this is somebody I've known in ministry for, like, he's been doing it as long as we have, like, 25 years or whatever. And. But because he's so far away, we don't get to see him at our, like, monthly gatherings of all the local youth ministers and catechetical leaders. And it was so great to have.
We talked on the phone for, like, an hour about different, like, just, like, ministry things and church things and how our families were doing. And, like, it's just, you know, to be part of a community of lay ministers. Like, I've been blessed to be in this diocese for all these years has just been. I don't know. It's really rich. And when you look around it, just some of the amazing people we've gotten to meet and work with and the legacy there.
[00:04:43] Speaker C: Isn't it weird how, like, we are now the old ministers helping the new ministers?
It's like, wait, I'm still just out of college.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: You don't Ever really feel like a grown up? I don't think. No, I don't.
[00:04:58] Speaker C: No.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: I'm still 20 in my head anyway.
[00:05:03] Speaker C: Okay. Praying today.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Praying today. All right, so we haven't been doing this much on the podcast this year, but I did kind of feel drawn to the mass readings this week. I don't know about how you feel, maybe because it's Lent and, well, you.
[00:05:18] Speaker C: Have a thing with the transfiguration story.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: It's the transfiguration story. I have to. I can't help it. I've been at transfiguration for 15 years.
But at the same time, like, this is also, I think, our third Lent.
[00:05:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:32] Speaker B: Doing a podcast. So I also feel like sort of haven't we already said everything about these readings and needs to be said?
[00:05:39] Speaker C: But. But it's been three years. So what we talked about that very first year.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Right.
[00:05:44] Speaker C: Is probably something completely different because we've already had.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: So we're gonna give it a try.
[00:05:48] Speaker C: So we're gonna give it a try.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: And see where this takes us. So the first reading today is from Genesis, and it is the story of God's covenant with Abraham, but it's Abram. It's before he has his new covenant name.
And it's the story where God promises him that his descendants are going to be numbered as the stars and that he's going to give them a new land to call their home.
And the Gospel story is the transfiguration story, which is Peter, James and John going up on the mountain with Jesus and he, you know, his appearance changes. They have this like, profound new moment of like, recognizing him in a new way and understanding who he is in a more, you know, more deeply.
So we call these, like, mountaintop moments. Right? Like, what are you. So we talked. We've talked a lot about mountain top moments, but I was thinking about these moments as like, not just high points, physically high points, but also like spiritual high points, but also the like. I was noticing that in both of these stories with Abram and with Peter, James and John, like, their prayer is almost like frightening. Like it's beyond what they're controlling they're having. Like, in the first reading, it says that Abram enters this, like, deep time of prayer that's almost described like a trance. They say he went into a trance even to the point of experiencing it as like, terrifying darkness.
And I was like, oh, we always talk about just like the mountaintop moments, but what if the prayer moments are like, maybe not. Maybe they're like high points, but Maybe they're also deep points. Not bad points, but deep points. I don't know.
[00:07:36] Speaker C: I don't even know what to say about that. That just sounds terrifying.
[00:07:40] Speaker B: Silence. Well, we were talking earlier. Okay. What? You should talk about silence, Karen. Silence.
[00:07:48] Speaker C: I don't like silence. It makes me anxious and nervous, even though I yearn for it because of how much is going on in my world, in my head. But then as I was thinking about it, I'm. Am I scared of silence or being alone with my thoughts?
Because when there's noise, I can't. I don't process what's going on in my head. Like, I'm so aware of everything else. So I wasn't sure if it's the silence that I'm actually scared of or everything that comes to my head.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: It's what happens when.
[00:08:26] Speaker C: When there is silence.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: When there is silence. Which is interesting. Cause you've talked several times about turning the music off in your car.
[00:08:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: And enjoying driving in silence. Yeah.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: Because I'm actually moving, though, so maybe.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: Your brain is just engaged enough, like.
[00:08:41] Speaker C: For me just to, like, sit here and.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:44] Speaker C: Like when we were on retreat.
[00:08:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:46] Speaker C: With the teenagers. With the teenagers. And we were like, okay, just take a moment. And it was just, like, quiet. And everyone's just sitting there. And I'm like.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: I bet you weren't the only one who was feeling that way. I love to challenge teens to be still and quiet and see how much of it they can take.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:04] Speaker C: I mean, I yearn for it, though.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:06] Speaker C: But I guess there's, like a.
There's a cutoff. Maybe, like, three minutes is all I.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Baby, that's all you need.
[00:09:15] Speaker C: I'm allotting myself.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah. That's interesting, because I don't think of myself as someone who is afraid of silence, but I do sometimes need to take certain steps to put myself in a silent place. Like, I've talked a lot about, like, walking or doing yoga. Moving as a way to help me come to stillness. But sometimes it's just sitting there with, like, a cup of tea or coffee.
[00:09:38] Speaker C: And doing what?
[00:09:39] Speaker B: Just drinking my tea. Coffee.
That's. That's the point.
Just drinking my tea or coffee.
[00:09:51] Speaker C: That makes me so anxious.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: You don't think that, like, drinking the tea is enough, like, driving to, like. I don't know, we have different personalities.
[00:10:01] Speaker C: No, but I mean.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:04] Speaker C: Like, when I did Ignatian spirituality. So when I.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: When you did the exercises.
[00:10:08] Speaker C: When I did the exercises.
Oh, my gosh. That was such a challenge for me.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: Because when we first started, it was like, okay, take five minutes. And I'm like, okay, five minutes. I can do this. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. Well.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Cause you're supposed to build up to an hour. Yes. A day.
[00:10:26] Speaker C: An hour of silence.
And I couldn't do it. I had to have music on, like, just chill music or whatever. But I couldn't just sit in silence.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: Well, see, I think instrumental music can be. For me, I would almost count that as silence. As long as there aren't words in it.
You gotta do what works for you. You gotta do what works for you.
[00:10:49] Speaker C: If anyone else is afraid of silence, we will come together.
[00:10:52] Speaker B: You don't get a medal for being an actual silence when you pray.
[00:10:56] Speaker C: Right.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Like, if you need to have music on, that's great. Like, God doesn't care. Maybe it's stillness is a better way to.
[00:11:03] Speaker C: Yeah. As I'm fidgeting right now and gesticulating and wiggling in my chair, my dad used to call me the living tornado.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: I love it when you were little.
[00:11:13] Speaker C: When I was like, he still says that about me.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I don't know. I guess it's just. For me, too. It's like this. In Lent, we talk about giving things up for, like, you know, fasting and almsgiving. But, like, for prayer, we usually talk about adding things in.
And I guess this year I'm personally feeling a little bit of resistance to that because I feel like I don't want less prayer, but I think I want less words. Fewer words and fewer expectations in prayer. Like, a lot of years, I'll get, like, a book or. I mean, we have great resources, like the little black books. We have other different prayer books that are going to be around during Lent for people to pick up and use. We have lots of things you can come to at church. You know, Monday night, Lent in prayer, all these different speakers here. There's so many things you can do to pray in Lent. But for me, I just want space, you know? Like, I just want some space.
And, yeah, I think I just want fewer words. And I don't want to get myself tied up in. Like, I have to read a chapter a day or I have to. Do you know what I mean?
[00:12:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Cause then that's an expectation. We were talking about that last week with fasting.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:31] Speaker C: You know, it's not an Olympic sport. We do what we can.
But sometimes I think, especially in Lent, we have these unrealistic expectations. Like, I'm gonna give up X, Y, and Z. Like, we were Talk, you know, and just then you don't happen, and it's all or nothing.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Right. Or you get discouraged, like two weeks in and.
[00:13:00] Speaker C: Or you take every Sunday as your cheat day and every Sunday as your cheat day. Or it doesn't really even mean anything.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: But you don't need it that much. Like, really, like five minutes in silence, perfect for you. Yeah, no, I want more. But anyway, I don't know if I'm gonna get it or five minutes. I don't know. So what would your prayer life. What would your ideal, like, Lenten prayer habit be?
[00:13:24] Speaker C: I guess mine has always been just seeing little moments throughout the day. Like, I'm a spontaneous prayer person. Like, if I wake up in the morning and I look out my window and there's a beautiful sunrise, I was.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Like, oh, my God. Noticing.
[00:13:39] Speaker C: Just noticing in the moment we talked about prayer or gratitude praying, and we each got each other our gratitude book for Christmas.
And I haven't even, like, looked at it or even opened it.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: I did once or twice, but not for a while. Yeah, and it's like.
[00:14:01] Speaker C: It's so weird because, like, I do it throughout the day, but then to physically sit down and have it and have it written out is the hard part for me because I'm like, I'm an in the moment.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Yeah. See, I really appreciate that. About your personal, though, is that you're more, like, spontaneous with it. Because I think what the desire that was coming up with me about, like, not wanting my prayer to be so structured is like, looking at these two scripture stories, like with Abraham and with Peter, James and John, like, they entered into these God experiences that they didn't create. Like, they didn't engineer them. Like, they didn't know they were going to happen. Like, God was in complete control of that prayer experience for them. And so I think that's why it was both. Both those experiences were so deep, but also, like, unsettling to them.
[00:14:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:58] Speaker C: Well, okay.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Because they didn't set out. I'm like, I'm going to read three, you know, two chapters of scripture a day for Lent or whatever.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: And then you've kind of boxed in God into this. This is my prayer time with God, and I'm going to do these actions, and that's going to be my Lent prayer. And we can kind of micromanage it. And so I'm saying, like, for myself, like, what would it look like to let God have complete control over my prayer life?
Well, yeah, and that's what scares me. You're scared of the silence. But I'm scared of, like, what if I don't come up with a plan for this quiet time and I just don't plan. This is my point. I know, right?
[00:15:40] Speaker C: But like, that's. I think that that's where I don't like it. Because if I feel like I'm in this box and I have control over it, but I'm letting God, it's like, then if things don't work out, then it's like I tend to blame God for it.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: I showed up for prayer, God, and nothing happens in my heart.
[00:16:04] Speaker C: Right.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:05] Speaker C: And so, like, if it's. I guess for me, I've just been accustomed to not have.
Is that sound really bad? Like I don't have any expectation?
[00:16:15] Speaker B: No, that sounds very liberating to me. That sounds very liberating.
[00:16:18] Speaker C: And so it's like, if it happens, great. But I don't have any expectation of like a checkbox of like, I don't feel defeated.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:29] Speaker C: And I'm able to just do it. Although I do envy that you are able to just sit with a cup of coffee or tea.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: Those are like mini. Those are not long. Do you know what I mean? Like, they're just moments to me.
[00:16:45] Speaker C: It would be like, where do I find that time to have my cup? I would have to plan it. And I just. I hate.
My personality is. I don't like to be expected to be somewhere.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:16:58] Speaker C: Except for work.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: But you have a lot of expectations of places you have to be. You are adulting in this world today with a job and a family. Adulting, Adulting. When you were talking, I was thinking about when I was in graduate school when I took sacramental theology. I don't know if we had the same teacher.
[00:17:17] Speaker C: Was this at St. Bernard's yeah.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Did you have Bob Kennedy for this?
[00:17:20] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: Okay. So I remember him saying to our class that when you're talking about, like, what happens in the sacraments and like, how God's grace moves in the sacraments and we have these rites, right. Where so we do, like. We say the correct words and we do the correct actions, and we expect God's grace to, like, show up in that way. But it's not magic because we're not the ones controlling it. God is always in control of the grace. And the thing I took away from from him is that our job is to, like, create favorable conditions for grace.
[00:17:56] Speaker C: Oh, I love that.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah. That was something I wrote down in my journal, like, many years ago when I had that class. And I was like, create favorable conditions. Because that's all we're doing when, you know, we say Mass or we baptize somebody, or we, like, we're doing what the church has found and named to be favorable, you know, what creates favorable conditions for grace. So I think, like, when we're talking about creating, like, a scaffolding for prayer, especially during Lent, like, can I hold that loosely? Can I create favorable conditions more loosely without being, you know, so regimented about it or not trying to fill it with things that I think I should be doing?
[00:18:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: You know.
[00:18:42] Speaker C: Well, this is a whole different conversation that we started from, like, three years ago.
[00:18:46] Speaker B: With the same readings.
[00:18:47] Speaker C: Yeah. With the same readings.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: I know.
It's. Yeah. Not that I clearly remember what we talked about three years ago or two years ago, last year or whatever, but.
[00:18:57] Speaker C: I wanted to touch.
I wanted to touch on a mountaintop experience.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:05] Speaker C: So you know how you were saying, like, mountaintops are always like a. It feels like it's always a positive, a high type of thing. But when I was looking at this and looking at your notes and everything, something hit me this time. I don't know why, but, like, oddly enough, a mountaintop experience for me was like, the death of my grandparents.
And it was like this devastating moment because I was. I had all four of my grandparents while I was in my 20s, which is unheard of, or was now we're so young. But, like, they were such a part of my life and my religiousness and who I was, that, like, even though in their death, I just felt so close and I didn't push God away.
I don't know. And it brought, like, even, you know, the death of my cousin, it brought the family together, and we were surrounded by awesome memories.
And so, like, that was almost like a mountaintop experience for me because then afterwards, all my cousins dispersed or all my family dispersed, and then I felt alone. It was like, wait, this isn't how it's supposed to be. So, I don't know. Have you ever felt. Have you ever had a mountaintop experience that wasn't necessarily seen as a. I don't know.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: I may have to think about that some more. I mean, when I look back on the course of, like, my faith life and everything, I definitely have a lot of. I don't know if I would call them, like, traditional mountaintop moments, but they were, like, retreat type moments. Like, you know, World Youth Day happened in Denver when I was 15, and I went to that, and, like, the Pope Gate was this huge thing, and there have been several like, kind of consecutive things like that that were definitely, like, you know, high points where I feel like God gave me graces that I was storing up for later, like when I was gonna need them in the valleys kind of thing. Right. But there have definitely been formative moments in my life that have been more, like, on the desolation side than the consolation side. I'm trying to think about how it all relates to. To, like, prayer, because I definitely feel like some of my deepest prayer moments have been in some of those more difficult times. But I've also had difficult times when I couldn't feel a prayer emotionally like I could. And in fact, my senior year of high school, we had a lot of change and trauma in my family. My parents divorced, we lost our house. We had, like, a whole bunch of financial things going on. And I remember going from being the person who was, like, all in with all the youth group stuff to having a couple of months, maybe almost a year, even when I needed other people to pray around me and to pray for me. So I remember I could lean on the prayers of others at those dark moments when I couldn't muster the spiritual well myself.
And that was all kind of part of the process.
I don't know. That's an interesting question, because you're right. Your prayer life is different in different stages and different ages and different seasons of your life, whether it's a high or a low or just the normal every day. Remember what Keaton said during his retreat talk?
[00:22:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: At the Search retreat, one of our teens, he gave a talk and he talked about, is God your steering wheel.
[00:22:44] Speaker C: Or your spare tire?
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Is God your steering wheel or your spare tire?
And how it can be hard to let God drive like in the ordinary moments. Right?
[00:22:52] Speaker C: Yeah. The other going back to the retreat, I wish all of you could have experienced Search Retreat with these kids. Because, I mean, that to me, was a mountaintop experience.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Oh, me too.
[00:23:03] Speaker C: The amazingness of all of them. But one of the girls was talking about, you know, a lot of her prayer has been in crying.
[00:23:14] Speaker B: Oh, the grace of tears.
[00:23:16] Speaker C: And she's like, tears are prayers. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And how true it is that if we go back and if we tally up our prayer life, how many of those moments were desolate and sadness, that that's when we prayed, when something happened that we just couldn't control or we couldn't understand why it happened.
But sometimes we forget to pray.
The good stuff.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:47] Speaker C: You know, And I love when I teach prayer or talk about prayer with the kids.
And I'm like, hey, you know, you woke up.
Praise the Lord.
We're awake, you know. And so I think it's just for this year, I think just taking a different approach to however you were praying. If you find yourself always praying in a desolate, negative kind of time, try to challenge yourself to pray in time of grace and gratitude.
[00:24:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So seeing Lent as a time where we can maybe experiment a little with prayer, maybe be a little more open with it and maybe rather than trying to, you know, climb out Everest with our prayer hopes and dreams and expectations to just show up.
[00:24:42] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: And notice what God is doing and let God be the one driving the car, drive away.
I think we covered quite a lot today. I think that might have been all the things I had.
[00:24:57] Speaker C: I'm good.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah. All right, everybody. So happy praying this week.
We hope you find some quiet moments with God and some not quiet moments with God and that all your moments, in fact, are with God this week. And we will see you back next week when we'll talk about almsgiving on this special guest.
[00:25:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:19] Speaker B: All right. Bye, everyone.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: Thanks for taking a faith break with us today.
Karen Luke and Anne Gallagher are lay ministers with the parishes of Saint Catherine of Siena in Menden, New York, and Church of the Transfiguration in Pittsford, New York. More about our parishes, including weekly live streamed Sunday Mass, can be
[email protected] or transfigurationpittsford.org Engineering Today is by Jeff Beckett. Join us for next new episodes of Faith Break each week in Studio on YouTube or on your favorite audio podcast or music applied.
